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#1 DaveK

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 08:47 PM

Flash mobs organized via social media for the purpose of creating chaos as a cover for criminal activity seems to be the coming thing for those predisposed to such activities.
England seems to be engulfed in this right now, though similar events have happened on a smaller scale in D.C. and Philadelphia.
Obviously not being there when it happens or escaping is the best choice, but if you get trapped the situation could get very bad. The mob would largely consist of young males, mostly unarmed, but if you were cornered by a mob the numbers alone would be terrifying.

I suspect sooner or later a licensed concealed weapons carrier is going to find him or her self in such a situation. Does anyone know enough about mob psychology to provide some guidance on how best to survive unscathed?

#2 B.S. DuBois

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 08:49 PM

I thought a Flash Mob was something that was on that show Howie Mandel put on?

http://www.fox.com/mobbed/

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#3 DaveK

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 09:03 PM

Flash mobs started out as harmless fun.

Sadly, they are being perverted for malignant purposes. I'd almost bet that before the end of the year we see something in Oklahoma like those that have happened elsewhere at some venue like the State Fair or after some entertainment event like a concert. A rampaging mob convened by social media for mayhem.
I hope I'm wrong. And that I'm not there. But they can happen anywhere. You could be shopping at a mall or pumping gas or just on your way home from work. You just have to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.
Paranoia is not usually my thing, but this phenomenon has be concerned.

#4 DaveK

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 09:29 PM

Like this: http://www.todaystmj.../126825018.html

It's an even worse situation than I was thinking of originally. I was thinking about an individual facing a mob, I hadn't considered there might be a racial aspect to it as well.

#5 clarkbe9980

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 09:59 PM

Leave it to damn kids to go and ruin everything. These are being used as organised crime now because people can steal or whatever and the large group hides identities. From studying Sociology I know that when people are in a group they act like cattle.... they are dumb. Group think is a powerful concept that lets a few low lifes make things go from bad to worst. I hope no one CCW holder is ever caught in one but I would consider it justified if they had to use their gun. Being out numbered and in a situation like that is threatening your life.

#6 Keith Cross

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 10:41 PM

What would the proper course of action be? If, when confronted by a mob, you pull out a gun and fire a round or two, what will be the mob's reaction? There's a good chance that many of them will scream and run like cattle, but will you be stampeded in the chaos? The other possibilty, should you shoot one of them, is that they will turn on you and either force you to keep shooting (which will wind up looking like one of those zombie stages) or overpower you and kill you with your own weapon. I believe that would be unlikely, but what I'm trying to say is that either way it's dangerous territory. Scary times these days we live in...and you say zombies don't exist...

#7 Gunnut 23

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 11:01 PM

you keep the gun in its holster and high tail it out of there.

#8 Spencer

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 12:48 AM

you keep the gun in its holster and high tail it out of there.


If possible, best option yet.

#9 BIlly D

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 07:00 AM

Try to blend in! Break some windows, flip some cars, rape the shit out of someone, stab someone in the heart with a trident.
All in good fun.

Seriously though, in the military while deployed overseas where this type of thing is common, they brief to go unnoticed and try to get away unseen.

#10 Gunnut 23

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 07:31 AM

Try to blend in! Break some windows, flip some cars, rape the shit out of someone, stab someone in the heart with a trident.
All in good fun.

Seriously though, in the military while deployed overseas where this type of thing is common, they brief to go unnoticed and try to get away unseen.


you made me laugh!

#11 BIlly D

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 08:45 AM


you made me laugh!


If you think that's funny you should see me shoot!!!

#12 Michael Ray

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 12:26 PM

you keep the gun in its holster and high tail it out of there.


Yep...until you can't, but if you haven't had hands (or pipes, or sticks, or....) laid on you or yours and you can get the hell away, doing so will always be the right answer. The more likely scenario may be that with how these work you'll probably be overwhelmed (hopefully without spouse and children in tow) and you'll have to make your way out as best as you can, defensively speaking. I'm personally always relying on a little warning in the way of situational awareness but Murphy is everywhere.

As in all scenarios you must be able to articulate your perception of the circumstances and why they justified whatever your response happened to be. Disparity of force, being accompanied by minor children and knowledge of prior outcomes are watchwords here, I think.

If you've been selected as the evening entertainment for these human flotsam do, as they say, "whatchu gotta do".

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#13 Glocktogo

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 08:45 PM

I think Mike's advice is spot on here. I'd rather run than try to draw down on them. A reasonable person would be in fear of death or great bodily harm and lethal force would be justifiable according to the law. Unfortunately, we seem to have a distinct absence of "reasonableness" in the media regarding these events. Kill one of these savages and you're going to be portrayed as a devout disciple of the 3rd Reich, hell-bent on ethnic cleansing. You'll be the racist scum who killed an innocent child who was only out for a little fun. Significant pressure will be placed on the DA to prosecute you in spite of the facts.

So as much as it might pain you to run in the face of lawlessness, would you rather be a martyr??? :(
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#14 dennishoddy

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 08:56 PM

Getting your ass beat, does not justify lethal force with the current laws.
Lethal weapons used against you does.
definition of a "lethal weapon" is up to a jury.

#15 Michael Ray

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 09:42 PM

Events like these are why it's so important to exercise all of the common sense rules about where and when you go, with whom you go there, etc. Unfortunately they are showing up in seemingly innocuous locations such as the state fair. It could be the mall, the park, anywhere. You just have to keep your eyes and ears open so that you have the best opportunity to beat feet and avoid the problem altogether. I'd rather have disappointed kids and leave the park early than get into a self defense shooting that I could have avoided, as would we all. Again, running or walking away is always the best option until it's no longer an option at all.

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#16 Keith Cross

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 10:29 PM

Getting away is definitely the best option - IF its available. I would think it also makes a difference whether or not you have your family in tow. This is not the time to try to stand up "in the face of lawlessness" and try to be a hero. The minute you try to stop one of these goons you (and/or your family) become a target. But, if you can't get out... Getting your butt kicked may not normally be justification for lethal force but there is such a thing as "disparity of force" where an "unarmed" mob suddenly becomes lethal therefore justifying use of stronger measures. Of course all of that changes if you have you wife and kids with you. Like I said earlier...its a dangerous scenario either way.

#17 Glocktogo

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 03:59 PM

Getting your ass beat, does not justify lethal force with the current laws.
Lethal weapons used against you does.
definition of a "lethal weapon" is up to a jury.


A weapon isn't a requirement for reasonable fear of death or great bodily injury. An overwhelming disparity of force would suffice, so long as you can correctly articulate your reasonable fear, preferrably with anecdotal knowledge of previous mob incidents resulting in death. It is however a much tougher case to sell, which is why I recommend GTFO. :(
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#18 Don Ross

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 04:10 PM

Taking this in a slightly different direction.

When traveling with friends (most who have CCW permits), we've always tried to establish a comonality of weapons. I love my HK's and since I practice more with them, I shoot them better; but I usually carry a Colt Commander in .45 ACP when traveling with my normal friends since they mostly carry 1911 pattern guns. What's that rule about fights? "Bring friends, lots of friends. Have them bring friends also." The Army taught me that it was alright to take a dead buddies magazines - he doesn't need them anymore.

When it's just me and the kids, both HK's are with us and outside of the car I usually carry both.
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#19 The Antichrome

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 06:25 PM

you keep the gun in its holster and high tail it out of there.



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#20 LStevens

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 07:15 PM

I was stationed in Germany, my wife and I came out of the subway and walked right into a Neo Nazi march. We took a side alley to get out of the way but the next thing I know boots on cobblestone. A mob of black clad masked skinheads came charging right at us. I pulled my wife behind me and thought this is it. Unarmed, I stood at the ready with nowhere to go. At the last second they peeled down a side street and were gone. Relief washed over me till I heard boots on cobblestone again! They are coming back... No it was the Politzi in full f'n riot gear and crazed attack dogs in front. They came to a stop and just looked at us. The quiet was deafening. I pointed with a shaky hand in the direction the punks went. They looked, shouted in German and released the hounds. There was more running then screams... We got back on the subway and headed home. Oh did I mention it was my wife's first day in Germany. Needless to say she wanted to move back to the states.

Now at home, I can travel armed legally. Would I try to flee? Absolutely. If I have no other option I would draw and defend my wife and myself, may not do any good but at least the first few would be just as f'd as me!
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