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#21 DaveK

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 07:35 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2....html?hpt=hp_t1

#22 TroyF

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 07:40 PM

I was going to chime in, but anything I could possibly say has been said (very inteligently I might add) by many of the above posters.
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#23 shooterdave

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 08:20 PM

There is a reason that we(DOC) do not carry firearms inside the wire at our prisons. The reason is, at any given time, you are outnumbered. Many times this is as high a ratio as 100 or 200 to 1. Even if only 20% of those around were involved, that is a 20:1 ratio. Consider that someone charging at your may take many shots to put down and you effectively have the capacity to stop the actions of maybe 3 or 4. What happens next is they take the gun away, stick it up your ass, and pull the trigger, if your lucky. So, the idea of melting into the shrubbery or locking yourself in the bathroom stall while a gang of juvenile shit heads jack JC Penneys seems like a higher percentage action than pulling your pistol does. All that said, it would be a difficult decision to make knowing you had the means to defend yourself under the shirt... Especially if they were thumping on people. If they show up with weapons, fuck em. They are bought and paid for.
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#24 Michael Ray

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 10:00 AM

Okay, so these two things don't EXACTLY relate but they could in some very important ways.

The Occupy movement is coming to the big box retailer near you this Friday and whether their intentions are criminal or not, these protests will certainly lend cover to those whose intentions are just that: Criminal. Be safe, be wary and be careful where you go & with whom.

Occupy movement planning to protest Big Retail on Black Friday

"Move your feet!"

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Support your Oklahoma teachers in their right to defend themselves and our children

 

Be a part of the conversation about the Rifleman's skillset on Facebook

 

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#25 Deacon

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 10:39 AM

you keep the gun in its holster and high tail it out of there.


THIS.

Best thing to do is not be there anymore. Stay cool, execute your exit strategy.

#26 aeropb

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 12:45 AM

Whip it out and take some headshots! The skull fragments and brain matter should freak them out.

#27 Oleg Tolmachev

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 08:34 PM

Getting your ass beat, does not justify lethal force with the current laws.
Lethal weapons used against you does.
definition of a "lethal weapon" is up to a jury.


Is this an Oklahoma thing? My understanding of the use of lethal force in Texas is that a punch in the head constitutes a lethal potential force, based on the case law. Therefore, you should be able to drop anyone who as much as punches in you in the face. However, while you may walk from criminal charges, dependents or relatives are likely to sue in a civil court for the loss of income, etc. I still have my Texas CHL and looking forward to taking the Oklahoma CHL class this Tuesday to better understand the law.

#28 dennishoddy

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 08:51 PM

Is this an Oklahoma thing? My understanding of the use of lethal force in Texas is that a punch in the head constitutes a potential force. Therefore, you should be able to drop anyone who as much as punches in you in the face. However, while you may walk from criminal charges, dependents or relatives are likely to sue in a civil court for the loss of income, etc. I still have my Texas CHL and looking forward to taking the Oklahoma CHL class this Tuesday to better understand the law.


There are so many variables, and I'm not an attorney. People have been killed by a single punch to the face, be it the punch or the fall afterward. So thinking this constitutes lethal force is one of the things that an agressive anti gun DA can persue. I may be wrong, but it revolves around the situation resulting in the punch.
4 or five thugs in a dark alley, and one starts beating your ass, the rest talking serious shit, would have me pulling my gun. Drunk Brother in law at a thanksgiving dinner punching me for telling him to get his stuff together would not result in pulling a gun.
The Attorney we had at my Concealed Carry class, basically told us that a good old fashioned fist fight was not deadly force, but again that is his opinion. I'm betting he has never been in one.

#29 Mitch Gibson

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 06:47 PM

The Attorney we had at my Concealed Carry class, basically told us that a good old fashioned fist fight was not deadly force.

That's what the attorney said in my class.
#dicksoutforHarambe

#30 TroyF

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 08:53 PM

Is this an Oklahoma thing? My understanding of the use of lethal force in Texas is that a punch in the head constitutes a lethal potential force, based on the case law. Therefore, you should be able to drop anyone who as much as punches in you in the face. However, while you may walk from criminal charges, dependents or relatives are likely to sue in a civil court for the loss of income, etc. I still have my Texas CHL and looking forward to taking the Oklahoma CHL class this Tuesday to better understand the law.


Negative. If a punch to the face were enough, at face value, to justify lethal force......I would have spent half of my career on paid administrative leave.
In my experience a lot of this line of thought comes from police circles. When taught baton strikes, a baton company (major one) utilized a striking chart with different color zones on the body. These zones illustrated appropriate was for baton strikes. Green zones are utilized when a moderate level of compliance is expected but with a low expectation of permanent damage. Yellow zone, moderate level of compliance, moderate expectation of injury. Red zone (including the head)' high potential for compliance and injury (lethal force). Somehow this got twisted into any strike to the face justified lethal force. But a strike to the face with a baton is entirely different than a strike to the face with a fist.
I once argued with an administrator who told me that officers were not allowed to strike to the face unless lethal force was justified. I disagreed. He was adamant, until I told him I would begin training officers to shoot a suspect if a suspect swung at their face. I said if its lethal force for us to punch them in the fwce,mthen it surelymwas lethal force for the,mto punch usmin the fwce. He then saw the error in his line of logic.
Raise your hand if you've ever been punched in the face....... If you've been punched in the face and died, well you get the point.
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#31 TroyF

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 08:57 PM

Sorry for the typos....iPad.


Another way to look at lethal force, and this ismthemtest I use and teach:
If the suspect were apprehended for his crime (in this case a strike to the face with a fist)' would the courts be able to punish him to death for said offense. This probably plays a greater role for LEOs, because we are an extension of the government, and are tasked with carrying out government/public interest. Regardless, pretty good rule of thumb for all to live by.

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#32 dennishoddy

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 10:17 PM

Totally backs up my point Troy.
Another post was worried about the civil case afterward.
With Oklahoma Castle Doctrine, we are protected from civil suits in a justifiable shoot.

#33 Wormydog1724

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 09:17 PM

Check out this flash mob

http://www.wimp.com/britishpeople/

#34 Mitch Gibson

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 09:39 PM

Check out this flash mob

http://www.wimp.com/britishpeople/

I couldn't finish watching that. Too disturbing.
#dicksoutforHarambe

#35 dennishoddy

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 10:05 PM

Gimme a break. Anytime I can walk through an airport with a smile on my face like some of those passengers did is cool with me.

The original concept of flash mobs is incredible, as it was just designed to be enjoyable to the crowd, and cause amazement to those that were not involved.

Crap! I'd join in, but I can't sing, dance or act.......
Do shoot a little though.

#36 Wormydog1724

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 10:16 PM

I thought that was awesome.

#37 Keith Cross

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 11:44 PM

Whoa...what has this thread turned into? Next thing you know we'll be posting updates to Dancing with the Stars!




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