Jump to content


Photo

Mitch Gibson - Learning to be a shooter


  • Please log in to reply
129 replies to this topic

#1 Mitch Gibson

Mitch Gibson

    The white Morgan Freeman

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,937 posts
1,330
  • LocationOKC

Posted 28 September 2011 - 08:35 PM

Some of us have talked about forming a study group and posting to a common thread a sort of story of our journey into shooting. I wasn't really sure how to start this thing, and I'm still not, but it seems like it would progress naturally if it centered around what is learned while shooting.

Breaking bad habits formed by shooting the wrong way takes quite a bit of time in terms of dry-fire practice .

When you start competing, you'll be amazed at the amount of time you remember NOT seeing your sights.

I've learned not to focus too hard on single targets in an array, since it's all there and you just have to shoot it according to stage rules, which are generally repetitive. It's ridiculous to concentrate on transitioning target to target when you'll do it automatically using your eyes.

If you get too comfortable shooting generic stage rules, this can lead to a pitfall when doing a Virginia count stage or one that includes specifics like strong-hand only arrays. Pay attention during walk-through.

My vision is getting faster, in that I can see the slide moving all the way back and forth, but I can't follow the front sight across it's full range of movement yet.

Shooting and moving is easier to do than I thought, and I wish I had started sooner. It frees up a lot of time.

If you're watching a bunch of people shoot a classifier and they all seem to be doing an oddly-placed tactical reload halfway through, it means there's a mandatory reload, and you need to ask the RO for clarification.

Switching from a heavier trigger pull to a dramatically lighter trigger pull makes it tough to prep the trigger. I shot two matches slapping it because of this and the match tension. Running a stage mock-up in live-fire practice, I was able to get it down again pretty well.

Wearing a shooting jersey while having D-class accuracy is sort of embarassing, but I'm also not trashing any clothing not meant for shooting.

People who shoot for a living and people who shoot like this for fun by and large aren't using H&K USPs or Beretta 92s or Mossberberg 930s or Galil carbines. There are many good guns, there are few best guns. "You need to be a chameleon."

That seems like a decent, albeit brief, start.
#dicksoutforHarambe

#2 Lance Jensen

Lance Jensen

    FBI

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 498 posts
145
  • LocationClaremore, Oklahoma

Posted 28 September 2011 - 09:53 PM

Sounds pretty good! The biggest thing is to seek professional instruction FIRST! This will get you on the right track and help you with the "what and how" to practice.
Also if you are interested in competition or helpful tips find a TDSA Instructor "blue shirt" at your local match. We will be more than happy to give any pointers you need!
TDSA Shooting Team

#3 Gunnut 23

Gunnut 23

    .223

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,827 posts
3,029

Posted 29 September 2011 - 08:09 AM

If I may, Id like to comment on your points. It may give you a lil insight.

or may not. lol.

Some of us have talked about forming a study group and posting to a common thread a sort of story of our journey into shooting. I wasn't really sure how to start this thing, and I'm still not, but it seems like it would progress naturally if it centered around what is learned while shooting.

Breaking bad habits formed by shooting the wrong way takes quite a bit of time in terms of dry-fire practice .
true

When you start competing, you'll be amazed at the amount of time you remember NOT seeing your sights.
very true- your subconscious at work.

I've learned not to focus too hard on single targets in an array, since it's all there and you just have to shoot it according to stage rules, which are generally repetitive. It's ridiculous to concentrate on transitioning target to target when you'll do it automatically using your eyes.
Ive never had an instance where Ive focused too hard. I dont think its possible.

If you get too comfortable shooting generic stage rules, this can lead to a pitfall when doing a Virginia count stage or one that includes specifics like strong-hand only arrays. Pay attention during walk-through.
true. Make a plan make a plan make a plan

My vision is getting faster, in that I can see the slide moving all the way back and forth, but I can't follow the front sight across it's full range of movement yet.
as long as you pick it up sharp when it snaps back and settles, thats fine!

Shooting and moving is easier to do than I thought, and I wish I had started sooner. It frees up a lot of time.
-and drops a lot of points, so dont rush it!

If you're watching a bunch of people shoot a classifier and they all seem to be doing an oddly-placed tactical reload halfway through, it means there's a mandatory reload, and you need to ask the RO for clarification.
good point

Switching from a heavier trigger pull to a dramatically lighter trigger pull makes it tough to prep the trigger. I shot two matches slapping it because of this and the match tension. Running a stage mock-up in live-fire practice, I was able to get it down again pretty well.
roger that- once you go light, its hard going back. I wish I never went past 3.5#.

Wearing a shooting jersey while having D-class accuracy is sort of embarassing, but I'm also not trashing any clothing not meant for shooting.
no one else cares, as long as you wear something!!!

People who shoot for a living and people who shoot like this for fun by and large aren't using H&K USPs or Beretta 92s or Mossberberg 930s or Galil carbines. There are many good guns, there are few best guns. "You need to be a chameleon."
thats a very good point; I started with a glock 37 (45gap) in L10, then moved to a USP45. I was an idiot, but then again, I learned!
That seems like a decent, albeit brief, start.



#4 Josh Appel

Josh Appel

    Par times back to normal

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 361 posts
19
  • LocationCollinsville, OK

Posted 29 September 2011 - 08:34 AM

If you get a bad grip coming out of the holster, take the time to fix it, it takes just a second.

#5 benjamin-benjamin

benjamin-benjamin

    snickerpuss

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,907 posts
316

Posted 29 September 2011 - 08:53 AM

it still amazes me that new shooters are so "scared??" of doing walkthroughs, there are a ton of procedurals, etc... that could have been prevented with a walkthrough, not sure why, but i still have trouble convincing people that they are necessary....

#6 Mitch Gibson

Mitch Gibson

    The white Morgan Freeman

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,937 posts
1,330
  • LocationOKC

Posted 30 September 2011 - 08:40 PM

Practicing drawing over a tile floor is not a good idea. I have a 5/16" diameter chip in my kitchen floor, from dropping my G17 while drawing as fast as possible a few months ago. The finish on the G17 shows no visible damage. Glock wins.
#dicksoutforHarambe

#7 Mitch Gibson

Mitch Gibson

    The white Morgan Freeman

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,937 posts
1,330
  • LocationOKC

Posted 02 October 2011 - 10:59 AM

If I may, Id like to comment on your points. It may give you a lil insight.

or may not. lol.

"I've learned not to focus too hard on single targets in an array, since it's all there and you just have to shoot it according to stage rules, which are generally repetitive. It's ridiculous to concentrate on transitioning target to target when you'll do it automatically using your eyes.
I've never had an instance where Ive focused too hard. I dont think its possible."

What I meant there was twofold: more along the lines of not debating whether a target has been neutralized, or losing focus of the fact that there are other targets to move on to (it seems like I've gotten lost considering a single target for far too long when I'd have been better served moving on and finishing the stage). And I really think it applies to targets closer than five yards. Not that I'm for hosing, but it's more an honest record of your performance to shoot and move on.

"Shooting and moving is easier to do than I thought, and I wish I had started sooner. It frees up a lot of time.
-and drops a lot of points, so dont rush it!"

Yeah, I wouldn't recommend this on any targets further than four yards, or even three, at my skill level. It was really easy to do at three yards, though, while scoring double alphas.


Thanks for the input.

Also, planning a stage worked out for me for the first time yesterday at USPSA @ OKCGC. It was on "Did I shoot that one already?" Following my plan and shooting effectively, however, worked out pretty poorly. Shooting well while following a set plan seems like it will be a tougher skill to gain. A few people on my squad, some better shooters than me, completely failed to shoot one or two targets on that stage.
#dicksoutforHarambe

#8 Lance Jensen

Lance Jensen

    FBI

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 498 posts
145
  • LocationClaremore, Oklahoma

Posted 02 October 2011 - 03:12 PM

That was a very tough stage... lots of mental preparation. Don't feel too bad, I got lost in a port and added about 2 seconds to my overall time. Its important to key on certain targets and run the visulization as many times as possible before shooting. The biggest mistake shooters make when that happens is to step on the gas.. then points suffer. If you lose time on a position make your shots count and gather as many A zone hits as possible. Chances are you wont be able to out run your points with time.
TDSA Shooting Team

#9 1000YRDSHOT

1000YRDSHOT

    .40 S&W

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 553 posts
14
  • LocationStillwater, OK

Posted 02 October 2011 - 03:38 PM

It seemed that the easiest way to shoot that stage was from right to left.

If you shot the four visible targets from the far right port, moved to the next port to the left and engaged the four targets to the left of the no shoot, then run down to the left end and engage the last five targets from that port you wouldn't double shoot or miss any targets.

That is how I ran that stage ........ now I just need to reduce my splits, that .45 acp loves to flip!!

Obviously there were other ways to shoot it, but that way seemed the most simplistic. Simple can be good if you realize you make plans and they go to hell when the buzzer goes off!
"There is a warthog running in front of the truck. We will stop so you . . . . wait until we stop the tru(BOOM) . . .WHOP!!"

#10 Chambers

Chambers

    actual GM

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,311 posts
417
  • LocationOKC, OK

Posted 02 October 2011 - 04:00 PM

Or you can do that, backwards...5, 4, 4. Easier to reload for a righty that way, you don't have to worry about the 180 as much.

I had a mag issue in the last port that cost me 4 or 5 seconds on that stage.

#11 Kirk Smith (ksmirk)

Kirk Smith (ksmirk)

    .44 Mag

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,450 posts
150
  • LocationOklahoma City, Okla

Posted 02 October 2011 - 04:45 PM

I had a hell of a plan but forgot to count! sucks when you squeeze the trigger and nothing happens LOL threw off everything after that but oh well had a good time. Had Mitch take a vid of me running one stage (thanks Mitch) and ya know when you think your doing ok and then see the video of it, yeah I got lots of work to do! Later,

Kirk

#12 1000YRDSHOT

1000YRDSHOT

    .40 S&W

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 553 posts
14
  • LocationStillwater, OK

Posted 02 October 2011 - 04:57 PM

Or you can do that, backwards...5, 4, 4. Easier to reload for a righty that way, you don't have to worry about the 180 as much.

I had a mag issue in the last port that cost me 4 or 5 seconds on that stage.


True
"There is a warthog running in front of the truck. We will stop so you . . . . wait until we stop the tru(BOOM) . . .WHOP!!"

#13 Mitch Gibson

Mitch Gibson

    The white Morgan Freeman

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,937 posts
1,330
  • LocationOKC

Posted 02 October 2011 - 07:20 PM

Sounds pretty good! The biggest thing is to seek professional instruction FIRST! This will get you on the right track and help you with the "what and how" to practice.
Also if you are interested in competition or helpful tips find a TDSA Instructor "blue shirt" at your local match. We will be more than happy to give any pointers you need!


I took the ACP1 class in June with my brother and two other BoomerShooters, and recommend it to everyone that I can. Shooters are a small group, though, and it seems tough to find people who are interested in this type of sport/lifestyle/hobby.
#dicksoutforHarambe

#14 Mitch Gibson

Mitch Gibson

    The white Morgan Freeman

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,937 posts
1,330
  • LocationOKC

Posted 16 October 2011 - 08:33 PM

I made a jump today in trigger prep and trigger control/sight alignment. Trigger control/sight alignment should really be the same thing in practice, done in tandem as the same activity. The lighter trigger has been tough to prep, but today I did it all day long with only one double. My control was inconsistent, but much more positive than negative.

Also of note, I was able to shoot all my shotgun rounds with two eyes open, and was surprised at how easy it was to use the superposed binocular image. The image is weird with the barrel side and top visible at the same time yet with the sight aligned. The shotgun shooting was great, but I didn't take time to use my shell caddies. Which brings me to practicing the way you're going to be shooting...

Shooting Friday night at H&H, I noticed that my stance sucked ass (I was belly-up-to-the-bar, and tended to lean back because of it) and my control of the gun was sloppy. I think the controlled indoor environment is not at all conducive to practicing action shooting. Grouping was my main goal, and was better than ever. Also, I spent time trying out different variations of my grip to give my support hand more real estate on the grip frame. This turned out poorly when I dropped the mag while a shot was going off, and I thought briefly that maybe my gun had exploded.
Shooting at the gun club today was totally different. I stood in a good stance naturally, and my gun handling was well-controlled. Practicing the way I'll be shooting is really the way to go, and I think that going indoors will only be a last resort for the time being. Even just shooting groups at the gun club is a thousand percent better than indoors.

Also, taking the TDSA class again is now a plan, if only to spend two days rigorously practicing excellence.
#dicksoutforHarambe

#15 Jesse Tischauser

Jesse Tischauser

    I'm addicted to kicking ass

  • Administrators
  • 23,506 posts
4,923
  • LocationGuthrie, OK

Posted 16 October 2011 - 08:56 PM

I just finished taking the TDSA Advanced Combat Pistol Course this weekend. I recommend that EVERYONE take the class as soon as possible when just starting out.

I had heard a lot of good things about this class in the past but I am now convinced that Marshall, Lance, Jeremy, Mike, Ky and the crew are teaching the BEST introduction to pistol shooting in all of Oklahoma.

I have taken competition pistol courses with Mike Seeklander at USSA, Phil Strader at Straighter Solutions, and Max Michel at Double Impact Academy over the past 2 years. These classes were all great but not a single one of them worked on the fundamentals of pistol shooting long enough because the classes had to cover to much ground to get into the "competition" shooting. So with all this training under my belt I wasn't looking to take any more pistol training classes anytime soon.

I took this class because Lance Jensen convinced me that he could make some improvements to my shooting. Lance Jensen, Mike Cywrus and I where shooting on the same squad at the big ProAm 3 gun match earlier this summer. Lance told me he saw some things I could improve on while I was shooting the pistol at the match on the clock. I might add that I finished in the top 10 for my first time at this very big match where Lance was telling me he could help me get better. My first thought when Lance said the class would make me a better shooter was that I was "better". Heck I just beat several guys I only dreamed of beating in 3 gun 6 months ago. Then I thought about it more and if the class could fix whatever it was that he saw me doing wrong I could finish top 5 or better at the next match. So I took Lances advice and signed up for the next class.

So going into the class I was kind of skeptical. I figured what else could TDSA teach me that my previous training didn't. I assumed I would breeze through the class doing drills that I had already done a thousands of times. Maybe I would pick up a small thing or two and basically spend 2 days and 1500 rounds simply getting more focused on my front site. Damn was I wrong!!!

I have always considered shooting groups to be one of the areas I needed to improve upon. I figured that my inability to shoot groups was due to the fact that I lacked visual patience and/or my vision wasn't good enough. Well TDSA's instructors figured out about half way through day one that the problem with my group shooting was hidden in my improper grip. I changed to the grip that TDSA showed me and now I can not only shoot one hole groups I can also shoot faster because my gun is recovering faster than before which I didnt think was even possible.

So if you are starting out or just need a refresher because your shooting isn't progressing the direction it should be go take this class!!!

End of thread. Lock it up!!!

#16 Mitch Gibson

Mitch Gibson

    The white Morgan Freeman

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,937 posts
1,330
  • LocationOKC

Posted 23 October 2011 - 12:01 PM

While shooting my shotgun during a stage yesterday, I noticed that I did a sort of "spray and pray" type shot on three targets. It wasn't worth doing at all; quite frankly it was retarded, as lining up a pulling off a perfect shot would have been both very easy and not all that more time-consuming. Ended up wasting a few shells and many seconds, and having to load more shells than I would have needed to finish the stage. It was on the awesome dual bay stage.
#dicksoutforHarambe

#17 Kirk Smith (ksmirk)

Kirk Smith (ksmirk)

    .44 Mag

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,450 posts
150
  • LocationOklahoma City, Okla

Posted 23 October 2011 - 12:28 PM

On the double bay stage I had a plan of how I was going to shoot shotgun, had my reload all planned out but after the first 3 targets those little poppers looked so tempting so I shot them which was not part of the plan so my reload was was off and I ran the shotgun dry. Lots to be learned. Later,

Kirk

#18 Mitch Gibson

Mitch Gibson

    The white Morgan Freeman

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,937 posts
1,330
  • LocationOKC

Posted 30 October 2011 - 08:58 PM

I was taking my 3-Gun gear (shell caddies, pistol mag pouches, AR mag pouches, pistol holster- the last stage was a big one) off my CR Speed Belt today, and thought it was worth mentioning that using such a belt for 3-Gun really sucked, and I will be using my heavy motorcycle belt for that type of shooting from now on. It's much easier to change gear around on a simple belt. Also, this will allow me to have one belt dedicated to USPSA.
#dicksoutforHarambe

#19 Mitch Gibson

Mitch Gibson

    The white Morgan Freeman

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,937 posts
1,330
  • LocationOKC

Posted 18 December 2011 - 11:06 AM

I practiced at the club yesterday, and found that I really couldn't get into the groove until I started behaving as if a timer had gone off. My trigger control was non-existent, and my follow-through wasn't there either. After pretending like I was at a match, I began controlling my trigger and following through. It also ended up that I shot much more aggressively and quickly, as well as with superb accuracy.
#dicksoutforHarambe

#20 Mitch Gibson

Mitch Gibson

    The white Morgan Freeman

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,937 posts
1,330
  • LocationOKC

Posted 29 December 2011 - 09:34 PM

This week I noticed my sight picture and trigger feel. The trigger is most noticeable; since I put in a Ghost Rocket I haven't really been able to feel the mechanism working what with the dramatically lighter weight, but yesterday I felt it all. My slack management was great, too. As for the sight picture, I think it's just my eyes focusing more steadily and at greater speed. I was still finding myself making up time by shooting without seeing, but I'm moving away from that since I can usually shoot clean as fast as I can while spraying, or at least make up the difference with more well-executed movement. Did a few Bill Drills, but wasn't really in the zone. My only clean drill was 3.31s.

It still seems like it takes several stage-type runs to get warmed up.
#dicksoutforHarambe




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users