Jump to content


Photo

Self Defense; H2H


  • Please log in to reply
36 replies to this topic

#1 Wormydog1724

Wormydog1724

    ATAS Ninja

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,780 posts
318
  • LocationOklahoma

Posted 22 September 2010 - 11:49 AM

What do you think could be the most important self defense training?

Grappling/Wrestling/Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

Boxing

maybe Muay Thai?

I've been in three fights my whole life, two in HS and once in College. I'm not bragging but all three ended on the ground with either me on top throwing punches or me Choking the guy out, literally unconscious.

Being that I have a wrestling background and I took karate from about 7 to 14 (it started more formal but morphed into self defense training) with some emphasis on brazilian jiu jitsu later on, I feel way more comfortable on the ground than I do standing toe to toe with somebody, especially if they're bigger ie. fatter.

I can handle myself pretty well on the ground by having good balance and technique and knowing how to shift weight.

I do know that if its a two on one or more, being on ground would be the last place I would want to go. We did some group sparring win karate, of coarse it wasnt truly "realistic" but getting on the ground always ended up badly.

If weapons are involved, bats, knifes, ect, I avoid. I may even run. Call me a pussy I don't care. I'm not taking a bat to the side of the head to prove anything. A kid I know was fighting and took a bat to the head and he's been brain damaged ever since. No thanks.

I know firearm training is important, but I think h2h would be just if not more important.

Any thought from some that have taken any good classes or what the real world is like? (not just hs and college bar fights)

Thakns

#2 mike cyrwus

mike cyrwus

    Overlord of Ballistic Hate

  • Sponsor
  • 2,846 posts
1,327

Posted 22 September 2010 - 01:01 PM

I know it doesnt answer which style;

But the guy from one style with the mindset to win, will do so every time.

#3 jeffsoward

jeffsoward

    .223

  • Founding Member
  • PipPip
  • 188 posts
9
  • LocationOklahoma City, OK

Posted 22 September 2010 - 03:19 PM

In my opinion, I don't think the style matters.  It would be good to know how to escape, control and subdue, but I don't ever want to get into a fight, I want to get out of it.
I was taught long ago to cheat. When I was a teenager, my MA instructor (his name was Michael Myers, no shit) taught us that if you can't avoid the fight, stop it as quickly as possible by inflicting as much response hindering damage as possible and then flee.  There aren't any style points for winning or penalty points for illegal moves in a street fight.
Eyes, ears, throat, groin, and knees.  Those are really the only spots I care about if it comes down to it, and that's only if I don't have my firearm near enough to me.
I was done fighting by the time I turned 21.  I'm way too old now to want to go to ground with some MMA / tapout / affliction junkie.
I can't say I never lost a fight, but those were the fights I "knew" I'd win. Sounds like I screwed up the sentence but I said what I meant.  When I didn't worry about the opponent and felt comfortable, I lost. When concern for my health and safety come into play, I'm not going to lose.
I can crush a larynx, dislocate a knee, gouge an eye out and try my best to tear an ear off, just to get away from a guy.  I was taught to reach down a dude's pants and grab his junk and squeeze, just to get him off my back. The reason you want to go down his pants is that he can't pull away from the grip.  If you can't, go for the over the pants strong-fondle. ;)

I'm all about defending dirty to get away, not to win.

my .02

#4 Josh-L

Josh-L

    .22 LR

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 14 posts
0

Posted 22 September 2010 - 05:38 PM

I agree with Mikey.  90% is mindset.  But you have to have a base of knowledge in some area.  Being a smaller guy I greatly prefer to go to the ground because I feel I have a more level playing field there even with a much larger individual.  I have won state in Tae Kwon Do when I was younger and rolled with some of the top BJJ guys in the state so it's hard to pick one discipline but if I had to I'd say Krav Maga is probably toe most well rounded single discipline.

#5 SigPig

SigPig

    .22 LR

  • Founding Member
  • Pip
  • 14 posts
0

Posted 22 September 2010 - 09:16 PM

At OHP Academy we were told that the majority of fights go to the ground. So that is what we are mostly taught. Ground fighting the Gracie BJJ way and it works quite well. As far as the few times Ive rolled in the ditch anyways. I would think maybe a Judo or wrestling background would be of some help too. Its all about what you train in and feel confident with.

#6 Jesse Tischauser

Jesse Tischauser

    I'm addicted to kicking ass

  • Administrators
  • 19,658 posts
2,835
  • LocationGuthrie, OK

Posted 04 October 2010 - 02:34 PM

I do like Rodney Carrington says in his last CD.  I take my pants off before the fight.  Nobody wants to fight a naked guy with a small pecker.

#7 Wall

Wall

    El Diablo

  • Moderators
  • 8,997 posts
1,472
  • LocationNW OKC

Posted 06 October 2010 - 09:15 AM

I do like Rodney Carrington says in his last CD.  I take my pants off before the fight.  Nobody wants to fight a naked guy with a small pecker.


I've got to agree with Jesse on this one.
Regardless of pecker size, I'm just not interested in fighting a naked dude.

#8 TroyF

TroyF

    TheBearcat

  • Moderators
  • 1,911 posts
199
  • LocationMoore, Ok

Posted 26 October 2010 - 02:47 PM

Since you are in Stillwater, contact Ed Boese (pronounced Bays) at Stillwater PD. He is a bad man, very well rounded, and intelligent. He can point you to any resources in your area.
CLEET Firearms Instructor, USSA Instructor, Defensive Tactics Instructor, Krav Maga Instructor, Royce Gracie LEO Instructor, Cooper Institute Fitness Specialist. http://www.usshootin...ent.aspx?id=138

Posted Image

#9 SteveS

SteveS

    .223

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 86 posts
1
  • LocationNorman, OK

Posted 27 October 2010 - 08:03 AM

You mentioned you are not as confident standing toe to toe with someone. I would start there. Find a good Boxing or Muay Thai gym. Seems like you have some experience on the ground already. The object is to get the other guy on the ground while you are still standing. Your typical Karate / Taekwondo schools have little knowledge of self defense. Most are sport oriented.

ATTITUDE IS EVERYTHING!!!

"A man with experience will never be at the mercy to a man with a theory"
Steve Swinford
Owner / Master Instructor
Premier Martial Arts / Oklahoma Krav Maga

Premier Martial Arts


Krav Maga

Posted Image

#10 cheech_029

cheech_029

    .223

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 134 posts
4
  • LocationOklahoma City, OK

Posted 05 January 2011 - 01:52 AM

Since you are in Stillwater, contact Ed Boese (pronounced Bays) at Stillwater PD. He is a bad man, very well rounded, and intelligent. He can point you to any resources in your area.


+1, Ed is a machine.

PM me if you want his contact info.
Krav Maga Instructor

"When young men seek to be like you, when lazy men resent you, when powerful men look over their shoulder at you, when cowardly men plot behind your back, when corrupt men wish you were gone and evil men want you dead, only then will you have done your share."

#11 Eric Gambill

Eric Gambill

    I shoot.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 897 posts
166
  • LocationSW OK

Posted 08 February 2011 - 12:46 PM

In my opinion, I don't think the style matters.  It would be good to know how to escape, control and subdue, but I don't ever want to get into a fight, I want to get out of it.
I was taught long ago to cheat. When I was a teenager, my MA instructor (his name was Michael Myers, no shit) taught us that if you can't avoid the fight, stop it as quickly as possible by inflicting as much response hindering damage as possible and then flee.  There aren't any style points for winning or penalty points for illegal moves in a street fight.
Eyes, ears, throat, groin, and knees.  Those are really the only spots I care about if it comes down to it, and that's only if I don't have my firearm near enough to me.
I was done fighting by the time I turned 21.  I'm way too old now to want to go to ground with some MMA / tapout / affliction junkie.
I can't say I never lost a fight, but those were the fights I "knew" I'd win. Sounds like I screwed up the sentence but I said what I meant.  When I didn't worry about the opponent and felt comfortable, I lost. When concern for my health and safety come into play, I'm not going to lose.
I can crush a larynx, dislocate a knee, gouge an eye out and try my best to tear an ear off, just to get away from a guy.  I was taught to reach down a dude's pants and grab his junk and squeeze, just to get him off my back. The reason you want to go down his pants is that he can't pull away from the grip.  If you can't, go for the over the pants strong-fondle. ;)

I'm all about defending dirty to get away, not to win.

my .02



I'm kinda in this boat. Back when I (we) were younger, fights happened because you or some other person had a problem and the winner had "kicked ass", won bragging rights ect...Now that I'm 32, married with two little girls, there is no "fighting" anymore. There is "defending". I personally am not going to start an altercation with anyone other than if it is impossible to avoid it to defend myself or family. If you attack me, I take it as a threat on my life and use the appropriate force required to distract/defeat/create as much pain as possible to beat you quickly and disengage.

Training in any of the above mentioned styles (and sticking with it/becoming proficient) is going to do nothing but help. But just remember what type of altercation your training for. Look at the MMA following in this country, there are a lot of people in this country who are happier doing nothing more than training everyday for the pipe dream of making it to the UFC.

The most important thing to me is to train with a combat mindset and develop a "will to win"

USPSA Production and IDPA SSP Master

 

X-Treme Bullets Shooting Team

 

www.xtremebullets.com

 

 

Follow me on Facebook or watch some of my videos on YouTube


#12 Daniel M

Daniel M

    .223

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 71 posts
1
  • LocationCOMBAT OUT POST AFGHANISTAN

Posted 23 February 2011 - 08:58 PM

You mentioned you are not as confident standing toe to toe with someone. I would start there. Find a good Boxing or Muay Thai gym. Seems like you have some experience on the ground already. The object is to get the other guy on the ground while you are still standing. Your typical Karate / Taekwondo schools have little knowledge of self defense. Most are sport oriented.

ATTITUDE IS EVERYTHING!!!

"A man with experience will never be at the mercy to a man with a theory"



I'm a Martial Arts instructor in Midwest City. And I noticed you said "karate/taekwon do schools have little knowledge of self defense. Most are sport oriented" Its kinda comical, because i've never heard of boxing gym being the ultimate in self defense. Boxings roots are based on sport. Clinching and waiting for the bell isn't what I would call self defense.

#13 SteveS

SteveS

    .223

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 86 posts
1
  • LocationNorman, OK

Posted 24 February 2011 - 02:58 AM

I'm a Martial Arts instructor in Midwest City. And I noticed you said "karate/taekwon do schools have little knowledge of self defense. Most are sport oriented" Its kinda comical, because i've never heard of boxing gym being the ultimate in self defense. Boxings roots are based on sport. Clinching and waiting for the bell isn't what I would call self defense.



Feel free to re-read my post. You mis quoted me, you left out typical. My point was most Karate / Taekwondo schools teach with sport application. Primarily because they have no knowledge or experience in real street encounters. There is a major difference between Boxing / Muay Tai and Karate / Taekwondo as it relates to sport. Although point sparring and Olympic Taekwondo sparring are fun and have their place, it's not what I would consider applicable in most self-defense situations. This very topic is what started the UFC and I think the results speak for themselves.

The main point is that one should be well trained in stand up and ground fighting.
Steve Swinford
Owner / Master Instructor
Premier Martial Arts / Oklahoma Krav Maga

Premier Martial Arts


Krav Maga

Posted Image

#14 Leighton

Leighton

    .308

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 221 posts
11
  • LocationMcAlester, Oklahoma

Posted 24 February 2011 - 06:58 AM

I studied traditional Shotokan Karate for over 20yrs, and the one thing I learned was that you'll almost always fall back on your basic techniques because they are the ones you've trained in the most. I had a very good sensei, who still competes today in traditional Shotokan matches(totally different from sport karate), and even though in his 60's now, I wouldn't want to have to fight with. Due to injuries received in Iraq, my practice is pretty much nill due to the damage to my neck and ulnar nerve. Now all I can do is pass on what I've learned to my son.
Here's a pic from 1993, I'm on the far left.
Posted Image

Here's my Sensei. John Bolosan.
Posted Image
It is true that 1911’s will give you GAS (Gun Acquisition Syndrome).

Posted Image

#15 TroyF

TroyF

    TheBearcat

  • Moderators
  • 1,911 posts
199
  • LocationMoore, Ok

Posted 24 February 2011 - 08:45 AM

You know a guy has been around when his black belt has turned white.
CLEET Firearms Instructor, USSA Instructor, Defensive Tactics Instructor, Krav Maga Instructor, Royce Gracie LEO Instructor, Cooper Institute Fitness Specialist. http://www.usshootin...ent.aspx?id=138

Posted Image

#16 Daniel M

Daniel M

    .223

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 71 posts
1
  • LocationCOMBAT OUT POST AFGHANISTAN

Posted 24 February 2011 - 09:53 PM

I studied traditional Shotokan Karate for over 20yrs, and the one thing I learned was that you'll almost always fall back on your basic techniques because they are the ones you've trained in the most. I had a very good sensei, who still competes today in traditional Shotokan matches(totally different from sport karate), and even though in his 60's now, I wouldn't want to have to fight with. Due to injuries received in Iraq, my practice is pretty much nill due to the damage to my neck and ulnar nerve. Now all I can do is pass on what I've learned to my son.
Here's a pic from 1993, I'm on the far left.
Posted Image

Here's my Sensei. John Bolosan.
Posted Image



I've been studying GOJU RYU since junior high. Sensei always told me that shotokan,and sho rin ryu are our sister styles. i've seen a couple shotokan guys come thru the school, and they shared really good stuff. Awesome pictures

#17 Leighton

Leighton

    .308

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 221 posts
11
  • LocationMcAlester, Oklahoma

Posted 26 February 2011 - 02:03 PM

I've been studying GOJU RYU since junior high. Sensei always told me that shotokan,and sho rin ryu are our sister styles. i've seen a couple shotokan guys come thru the school, and they shared really good stuff. Awesome pictures


Funikoshi, never wanted to name his style, that happened by his students, and where they practiced. Funikoshi studied most of the Ryu styles, and took what he considered the best from each, and this shows in the forms or kata's. Like most of the Ryu styles Shotokan is a hard style, and one that stays low to the ground. Even though high kicks were practiced, there are none in any of the kata's due to the belief of placing yourself of balance to your attacker. I studied Hapkido while in Korea prior to meeting Sensei Bolosan. I enjoyed learning all the locking an throwing techniques, but my short little legs had one hell of a time with the high fancy kicks. When I happened into meeting Sensei Bolosan, I knew I'd found what I was looking for in a martial art. Not only did he teach very traditional Shotokan Karate, but every movement he broke down to show the self defense application. Any tournaments were always traditional Shotokan events.
It is true that 1911’s will give you GAS (Gun Acquisition Syndrome).

Posted Image

#18 Daniel M

Daniel M

    .223

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 71 posts
1
  • LocationCOMBAT OUT POST AFGHANISTAN

Posted 27 February 2011 - 10:34 AM

Funikoshi, never wanted to name his style, that happened by his students, and where they practiced. Funikoshi studied most of the Ryu styles, and took what he considered the best from each, and this shows in the forms or kata's. Like most of the Ryu styles Shotokan is a hard style, and one that stays low to the ground. Even though high kicks were practiced, there are none in any of the kata's due to the belief of placing yourself of balance to your attacker. I studied Hapkido while in Korea prior to meeting Sensei Bolosan. I enjoyed learning all the locking an throwing techniques, but my short little legs had one hell of a time with the high fancy kicks. When I happened into meeting Sensei Bolosan, I knew I'd found what I was looking for in a martial art. Not only did he teach very traditional Shotokan Karate, but every movement he broke down to show the self defense application. Any tournaments were always traditional Shotokan events.



Awesome Funikoshi studied at the same time as Chojun Miyagi sensei. Did your style derrive also from naha te from Higaonna? GO JU RYU is technically translated as Hard Soft Way. But I think just like the other ryu styles we sometimes focus on the Hard more than Soft. I like soft open hand blocks,and redirecting open hand. But Hard striking techniques are my favorite. We teach an edged weapons program in Midwest City. You should come check it out if you're ever in the area. www.mushinkanllc.com

#19 Leighton

Leighton

    .308

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 221 posts
11
  • LocationMcAlester, Oklahoma

Posted 27 February 2011 - 01:02 PM

Awesome Funikoshi studied at the same time as Chojun Miyagi sensei. Did your style derrive also from naha te from Higaonna? GO JU RYU is technically translated as Hard Soft Way. But I think just like the other ryu styles we sometimes focus on the Hard more than Soft. I like soft open hand blocks,and redirecting open hand. But Hard striking techniques are my favorite. We teach an edged weapons program in Midwest City. You should come check it out if you're ever in the area. www.mushinkanllc.com


Sorry, but I'd have to go dig out all my books on Funikoshi. He wrote three books on Shotokan, and should be required reading by any student of Shotokan or Okinawan Te. PS I'd love to stop by sometime and see your training.
It is true that 1911’s will give you GAS (Gun Acquisition Syndrome).

Posted Image

#20 Wall

Wall

    El Diablo

  • Moderators
  • 8,997 posts
1,472
  • LocationNW OKC

Posted 25 May 2011 - 12:07 PM

Gracie BJJ is the best.... If anyone wants to give it a try let me know the first week is free. Everyone is really nice and helpful
My #208-3622

Mondays: GI
Wensdays: No GI
Thursdays: Open mat

Where & what is the min. age?




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users